查理罗斯采访马云中英字幕.doc

1、CHARLIE ROSE: Jack Ma is here. He is the founder of Alibaba, Chinas largest e- commerce group. Hes one of bis countrys first and most Successful technology entrepreneurs. H is company runs a host of popular Including sites A , a trade site for Small Business Tha t You More Than 50 million users in M

2、ore Than 240 countries. How about Chinas largest retail sit e with More Than 300 million users, and Chinas version of PayPal, with More Than 400 million us ers. The company is eying Also Markets in the United States, Japan, and India for more growth. Al ibaba is Chinas Homegrown Among tech companies

3、 flourished That Have Booming market in STI s. Already China has the worlds largest Internet Population with over 400 million people online. I m Pleased to Have Jack Ma at this table for the first time. Welcome. 今天我们请来了马云。他是中国最大的电子商务集团阿里巴巴的创始人。也是中国首批最 成功的科技企业家之一。他的公司经营着好几个很受欢迎的网站，包括 Alibaba。Com，一 个小

4、商务的的交易平台。有来自超过 240 个国家的 5 千多万用户。还有超过三亿用户使用 的中国最大的零售网站淘宝，还有中国的 paypal,支付宝有超过四亿的用户。公司还着眼开 拓美国，日本和印度市场寻求更大发展。阿里巴巴是最成功的本土科技公司之一在中国这 个繁荣的市场。中国拥有世界上最庞大的互联网用户群，在线人口超过四亿。我很高兴今 天首次请到马云来参加我们的节目。欢迎。 MA JACK: Thank you. 谢谢 CHARLIE ROSE: So tell me how you got Involved in technology. 你是怎样涉足科技界的呢？ MA JACK: Actual

5、ly now Im not Involved in technology. Im Involved in entrepreneurshi p, Because I Was Trained to Be a high school teacher. I know nothing about technology. The only thing I use my computer is send Receive and email and browse. Thats it. 其实直到现在我还没有涉足科技，我应该算是个企业家。因为我接受的教育是为了当一名 中学的老师，我不懂技术，直到现在我唯一能用电脑

6、做的就是收发邮件和浏览网页，仅此 而已。 CHARLIE ROSE: You can not write code? 你不会写程序？ MA JACK: No, not at all. Im Always wondering how the code works. But because i do not know the technology, But I respect technology, we Always hire the best people. I believe tec hnology is one thing is for the people. We should tell

7、 the technology guy What the Consumers W ant, What the people want, because i Believe 80 Percent of the people in this world are like me - we love But technology were scared of technology. 一点都不会，我总是在想那些程序是如何运作的。但由于我不懂技术，我尊重技术我雇来 最好的人才，理解他们，让他们发挥。我相信：科技为人服务的。我们要告诉那些搞科技 的人：消费者想要什么，人们需要什么。我觉得这世上百分之八十的人

8、，像我一样，喜爱 科技但是对其敬畏。 CHARLIE ROSE: So What Was it about you and Creating These companies? 你创立这些公司是为了什么？ MA JACK: Well, I started the first Internet company in China in 1995 Called Chinapage . Just by accident I Came to the United States and I found something is going to change the world, so I started

9、the business 恩，我 95 年在中国设立了第一家互联网公司，叫做中国黄页。偶然的机会，我来到美国接 触到了互联网，当时我想，哇，这东西将改变世界，于是我开始做了这份业务。 CHARLIE ROSE: You Knew It Was Going to change the world and you saw it? 你当时已经预计到互联网将改变世界？ MA JACK: Yes. I think this thing is going to be huge, by honestly I Do Not Know After 15 years it would grow That fast

10、. And I Work For myself for three years and compete with China, an d Then the site failed, Joined Government and Then for 14 miles and Then start Alibaba. Today I t hink What we want to do the business Is That When I Was entrepreneur, small tiny business, nob ody Help us. So When we grow we say, wel

11、l, China Needs a lot of jobs, China Needs a lot of entre preneurs. And whats the best way to help them? Internet. So They will focus on Helping Each Ot her. And Because we are helping more people and There are Then more people helping us the bu siness really grows. 是的，我觉得它将影响巨大。当然老实说，我不知道 15 年它会发展那么

12、快。我自己经营了 三年，和国营单位中国电信竞争，但这个创业公司失败了。然后我气政府单位工作了 14 个 月，接下来创立了阿里巴巴。到今天，我仍觉得开始做阿里巴巴的初衷是因为当我们是小 企业的创业者时，没有人帮助我们，在我们成长发展的同时，中国有很多人要找工作，中 国需要许多中小型企业，需要很多创业者，怎样才能最好地帮助他们？互联网。于是我们 专注于帮助别人，也因为我们帮助了很多人，更多的人来帮助我们。就这样我们的业务蓬 勃地发展起来了。 CHARLIE ROSE: You are an apostle for small business? 你是小企业的倡导者？ MA JACK: Im a s

13、trong believer. Its my religion. 我坚信这点，这是我的信仰。 CHARLIE ROSE: Its your religion? 是你的信仰？ MA JACK: Its my religion. I think its a great honor for us That we Were born in this sta ge doing Internet. And we so Realized We Can help many people. And its all about family, is its a ll about family hope and d

14、reams. So, you know, I think Im very honored, That its just a great hon or That This Life That You Can Influence so many just by using the Families technology. 是我的信仰。我认为我们很幸运地出生在这个年代，从事互联网，有一刹那让我们意识到 自己可以帮助到那么多的人，尤其是中小企业，他们需要养家活口，他们是很多家庭的希 望，是很多家庭的梦想。因此，我对此感到非常光荣，能对这么多家庭产生影响，是一个 荣耀，通过采用技术并获得发展。 CHAR

15、LIE ROSE: Where is Alibaba going? 阿里巴巴将如何发展？ JACK MA: Stay Focused on ecommerce and the consumer market and I we think China Become the Infrastructure of ecommerce. You know, e- commerce in the Kingdom is a dessert, But in China its Become a main course Because the Infra structure of doing business

16、in China is so bad. The Infrastructure of doing business is in the States is so good. So its very Difficult for a pew ecommerce company to grow That big in the States. Bu t in China, just like mobile phones. Ten, 15 years ago the Infrastructure of Telecommunication W as so bad. Ecommerce Today, same

17、 thing. There Is So I think - the best That Came Into This World Is Through the make money helping commerce. 仍然以电子商务为核心，仍然以中小企业和消费者市场为核心，还有我认为我们会成为中 国电子商务的基础架构。你知道，电子商务在美国是饭后甜品，但在中国就是主菜。 因为 在中国，商业经营的基础设施很差，而美国商业设施已经建立的非常完善。所以在美国一 个单纯经营电子商务 idea 公司是很难发展到那么大。但在中国，好比手机的引入，10 年前、 15 年前电信的基础设施是那么差，手机就在中国

18、市场产生了轰动。今天的电子商务，也一 样。所以我想最好的事情是通过电子商务，帮助人们赚钱。 CHARLIE ROSE: What do you think is your core competence? 你觉得你的核心竞争力是什么？ MA JACK: Its culture. Its not the technology. I think technology is a tool. But the core competence of Our Companies, We Have 20,000 - we grow from 18 people to now 20.000 young peop

19、le. And we focus a lot on the value in making sure the culture, everybody works for Helping others INSTEAD of just making money. And we bel ieve thats Different from Wall Street. We believe customer one number, employee number two, three shareholder. 文化。不是技术。技术是工具。但我们公司的核心竞争力，是我们的 2 万员工。我们从 18 个人的公司

20、，发展到今天有两万个年轻人在为我们工作。我们更多地关注价值观和公司使 命和维护那种帮助他 人的公司文化而不是只为了挣钱。我们的信念是跟华尔街是截然相反 的。我们相信，用户第一，员工第二，股东第三。 CHARLIE ROSE: Customer one, employee two, three shareholder. 用户第一，员工第二，股东第三。 JACK MA: Number three. This is my religion. If you - its the That customer pays us the money. Its the Employees That drive i

21、nnovation. Its the share holder - and Shareholders say, you know, Ima member the IPO day before, and a lot of people say Jack, were long term Shareholders. When a crisis meat But these guys run. They run away. (LAUGHTE R) My people stayed, stayed Customers. 这也是我的信仰，如果你用户是我们的收入来源，员工是创新源泉，我记得股票上市 的前一天

22、，很多人说马云能给我一点股份吗？我们是长期投资者。但当危机来临的时候， 这些人就跑了，都跑了。我的员工还在，顾客还在。 CHARLIE ROSE: Yes. So youve got a world market now. Youve got traction, tracti on big time Can you look at the world and say what we do in China we can do anywhere, or not? 对。那现在的市场都越来越国际化，建立了影响力，巨大的影响力。你可不可以放眼世界 说在中国做到的事情在世界其他地方也能做到？还是不行？

23、MA JACK: Well, yes and no. I think we would say were doing China. Where theres sma ll and medium size business, yes. Im a strong believer small is beautiful in this century. Last cent ury big size, big skill. 行也不行。我觉得不应该说我们是在中国经营而应该说我们是在为中小企业服务。只要世 界上有中小企业，我很相信在这个世纪，小即是美，上个世纪崇尚大型，大规模。 CHARLIE ROSE:

24、So small is beautiful 21st century? 在 21 世纪，小即是美？ JACK MA: Small is beautiful. So as long as we believe Any nation anywhere off small to medium size business, well be there. 对，小即是美。我们只要相信任何国家，任何地方有中小企业，我们就会出现在那里。 CHARLIE ROSE: Now, There are people trying to create - do you see people in the United

25、States trying to follow your model and do what youre doing? 现在也有人在尝试创立在美国有没有发现有人尝试效仿你的商业模式？ MA JACK: They try but not successful. 他们尝试了但是不成功。 CHARLIE ROSE: Why is that? 为什么? MA JACK: I think U.S. Still is driven company. Ten years ago the e- commerce in the western part is Focus on big company, focu

26、s on buyers, focusing on cut the cos t. But in China we focus on small and medium size companies. We focus on supplies. I think you Have to teach the SME how to save the costs. We would help them to sell Things. But USA, We H ave over two million registered users, small and medium size individual us

27、ers in the States right n ow. 我想美国任然是大公司驱动的，10 年前电子商务在西方是专注于服务大公司，专注于服务 买家，专注于降低成本。但在中国我们是专注中小企业，专注于供应商，我想你不需要教 中小企业如何去省钱，因为他们在这方面比你更精通。我们帮助他们卖产品。当然在美国 我们也有超过两百万注册用户，都是现在美国的中小企业商家。 CHARLIE ROSE: I do not know That this is an analogy or not, But Sam Walton at WalMart Focus on small towns. I built Wal

28、Mart by serving people in small towns, Not By coming to Manhattan or Boston or Chicago or LosAngeles. 我不知道这是不是可以类比就如山姆沃尔顿做沃尔玛起家时，专注于小城镇。他首先建 立了服务小城镇居民的沃尔玛超市。而不是去曼哈顿，波士顿，或者洛杉矶开店。 MA JACK: I agree with That. I think - Ive seen people make a fortune by catching shrimp, But Ive never seen people make a

29、fortune by catching sharks and whales. (LAUGHTER) Like “Forrest Gump“ Told me, this shrimp and shrimp That, You Have to simple dream. (LAUGHTER) 这个我同意。我见过桌虾致富的人，但我好像没见过捕鲨捕鲸致富的人。 阿甘正传让我 很受启发，这里捉只虾，那里捕只虾，你只需要有一个简单的梦想，一个大家都喜欢的理 想。 CHARLIE ROSE: Exactly. So Now That You Have a very, very prosperous busi

30、ness, Enormous Wealth, fame, what is it you want to do? 完全正确。现在你经营着一门非常非常兴旺的生意，拥有庞大的财富，名声，还有什么是 你想要的？ MA JACK: I think the rest of my life is spend more time Encourage entrepreneurship. 我想在我的余生花更多时间，鼓励创业精神。 CHARLIE ROSE: It is your religion in your body? 这是你心中的信仰？ MA JACK: Thats right. I want to hel

31、p more SMEs and help people go back to school. I W as Trained to Be a schoolteacher and Ive been doing business for 15 years, and I think most of th e things I Learned from school are correct. 是的。我想帮助更多的中小企业和创业者。当然还有重返校园。因为我是受师范教育的， 而我做了 15 年的生意，我觉得在学校学到的大部分东西都不正确，我要回去和我的学生分 享 CHARLIE ROSE: What Did

32、 You Learn That You Wish You Had Learned? In Other W ords, What are you teaching us thats not correct, and What is Not That theyre correct teaching us? 有什么是你觉得当初应该教的但没教的？换句话说，有什么是学校在教但并不正确？有什 么是他们没教，但却是我们该学的？ MA JACK: Well, the MBA schools, a lot of business schools teach They a lot of skills on h o

33、w to make money, how to run a business. But I want to people tell if you run business, you Have to run the first value. To surf the Others, help the Others, thats the key, because i - one of the Things we believe is if you think about making money and this is the U.S. dollar, the Ja panese Yen, Hong

34、 Kong dollars, nobody Wants to make friends with These People. Think about h ow can you help people and create value for the Others And Then Youll get the money. This is ho w we Succeed in China. And this is why you call us a company core competence. I try to make pe ople believe That. Its Become a

35、religion of the company. People say Jack, your company is crazy. How can you do that? But this is the way we run the business. And I think this is the way the 21st century. The other thing is Also Focus on quality and your own people. 嗯，MBA 学院，有很多商业学院，他们教很多怎样赚钱的技能和商业经营的技能，但我想 告诉人们，如果你想经商，首先要树立好价值观。服

36、务他人，帮助他人。这是关键，因为 我我们的理念之一是，如果你要赚钱，这只眼看美元，那只眼看日元，嘴里说的却是 港币，没有人愿意和这种人打交道，你永远也赚不了钱。要想想你可以怎样帮到人们，为 人们创造价值，才能赚钱。这就是我们在中国取得成功的原因。这就是为什么你问我什么 是公司的核心竞争力，我希望我的两万名员工相信这个理念。他成为公司的信仰。人们说 马云，你的公司疯涨的那么快，你是怎么做到的，这就是我们的经营方式。我想这也是 21 世纪的方式。另外就是专注于你自己的员工。 CHARLIE ROSE: Say That Again? What ? 再说一遍?什么？ MA JACK: Your ow

37、n people, because i think China is the best resource Not the cost, its the human brain, 1.3 billion people. If we Develop Their brains, thats got a lot of innovation, that s the best resources we Could ever have. I am so honored to have so many young people, the average age of the company is 26 year

38、s old. Those brains, That c hanged the world. And thats running that brain the computer. I hate running computer brains. We should make human brains run the computers. The Growth technology, maybe 500 and 600 Years Later, machines going to kill people. Our job is to make sure That a human runs the m

39、achi ne. Machines serve the people, computers. 你的员工，因为我认为中国最大的资源不是煤矿，不是石油，是人，13 亿人的智慧。如果 我们将他们的智慧开发出来，那就会有很多创新，那是前所未有的最大的资源。我很荣幸 能有那么多年轻人在我的公司工作，公司的平均年龄在 26 岁。是他们的智慧改变了世界。 让人去引领电脑，我讨厌电脑来引领人，我们要让电脑为人服务。当科技发展到，也许 500 年或 600 年以后，机器会毁灭人类。我们的工作是要确保是人类控制机器，让机器服 务于人类 CHARLIE ROSE: So Beyond the small busin

40、ess and obsession with entrepreneursh ip and the human brain, what is it That - what is it about the way the world is going That Encourage you or worries you? 在你对小型商务，创业精神和人类智慧的执着背后，这个世界有什么让你感到鼓舞和担忧 的？ MA JACK: I think worries me is about greediness. Especially one of The Reasons We Ha ve The Financ

41、ial crisis is the greed, When you put money first, one shareholder. The nation Think s about the GDP and the company Thinks about revenue, profit, IPO, and the people forgot What theyre doing. Notre coming here to make money, we come to this Not to make money. Were c oming here to experience the lif

42、e. That really made me worry. And What would make me excited, I think the young people. The people born in the 80s and 90s, and These People and Their funda mental Because of the values - 我想最令我担忧的是贪婪，金融危机发生的很大原因就是贪婪。当你把钱放在第一位，股 东放在第一位，这个国家只关注 GDP，公司只关注收入，利润，上市，人们会忘记他们在 做什么。要知道我们来这世界不是为了赚钱，我们来这不是为了挣钱

43、，我们是为了体验人 生。这真的使我担忧。而使我兴奋的是，我想是年轻人，生于 80 和 90 年代的人们，他们 会重拾价值观，就因为经历了这些危机。 CHARLIE ROSE: You really believe that? You think theyll return to Because value s of them young? 你真的这样认为？你认为这些年轻一代能使价值观重返？ MA JACK: Because of young people. Young people - My Father Was Criticize my grandfather. My father Crit

44、icize me. But my father did to Better Than job my grandfather, I did a job Better Than My Father, and I believe my kids will do a Better Job Than Us. Nobody can stop it. 对，因为这些年轻人和将来的年轻人，我的祖父教训我的父亲，我的父亲教训我，但我的 父亲比我的祖父更优秀，我又比我父亲优秀，我相信我的孩子也会比我们优秀，这是大势 所趋，没有人能阻挡。 CHARLIE ROSE: You work all the time or

45、do you take time for balance in your life? If you pause the answer is you Have No balance. 你是一直工作，还是有时间平衡自己的生活？如果你不回答就是说你完全没有生活和工作 的平衡。 MA JACK: Right. Thats right. Yes. (LAUGHTER) 对，确实如此，是的。 CHARLIE ROSE: So why is that? Because its so exciting? Because the challenge is now? Its the only life you k

46、now? It makes you happy? What? 为什么会这样? 因为工作令人兴奋？因为挑战就在眼前？因为它是你唯一知道的生活方式？ 还是它使你快乐？到底是什么？ MA JACK: I think Because Of The Excitement and because i really Opportunity and hon or this treasure in my life That I can do Things. I think my father said if you Were born 30 years ag o, Earlier, you would Prob

47、ably be in the prison Because You Have the ideas are so Dangerous. But today, I think not. 我想是因为它带来的兴奋，也因为我真的很珍惜我生命中能有这样的机会，并为之感到自 豪，令我可以做这一切。我的父亲曾说，如果你早 30 年出生，你可能会被关起来，因为你 的想法太危险了。但今天，我想不会。 CHARLIE ROSE: He said if You Were born 30 years ago youd be in prison? 他说如果你早 30 年出生你可能会蹲监狱？ MA JACK: Becaus

48、eof the Cultural Revolution, I would be in prison, Because the way you think is so ridiculous. 因为文化大革命，我可能会被抓去坐牢,因为你的言论和想法太荒唐。 CHARLIE ROSE: What are the Ideas that excite you, or is it just Customers? 是什么想法令你兴奋？还是就是用户？ JACK MA: Customers first, second is last century, a company, if you want to grow

49、, I beli eve you should find a good opportunity. But today if you want to be great company, think about What You Can social problem solve. Its not to catch the Opportunity, its about solving Socialist P roblems, Because a company like Alibaba, were Growing so fast, its very Difficult for one Opport unity That Can Make us last. Such Organizations powered by 400 million Internet with Consumer s, What kind of dog problem be solved? And you mention anything about cloud talking about mo bile computing and Things, any